Randall Flagg

Me: Ka is a Wheel hasn't updated in forever.

Me: What's the hold up?

Ben: THE STAND is back at my house.

Ben: I've read a bit farther in it.

Ben: Further?

Ben: Fuck it.

Me: How much faurther did you get?

Ben: I read up to the chapter with the man in black.

Ben: Well

Ben: that is to say

Ben: I read that chapter

Ben: and the reason I've been delaying this conversation is because I'm having a hard time deciding exactly what I want to say.

Ben: Okay.

Ben: Let's go.

Ben: I mean

Ben: so far, THE STAND is the scariest thing I can remember reading.

Ben: It's a believable horror.

Ben: A seemingly benign threat that cannot be stopped.

Ben: It has the weight of inevitability with a small glimmer of hope.

Ben: And I was anticipating that the remaining two thousand pages of the book would concern the hundreds of characters so far introduced struggling to survive in the empty desolation wrought by the disease.

Ben: I can foresee a good book in that.

Ben: A very compelling, very human tale.

Ben: I was glad, thinking to myself, that Stephen King wasn't going to fuck up this great setup with any kind of bullshit magic.

Ben: OOPS WAIT I CAN FLY LOL.

Ben: I mean, seriously.

Ben: Why was it necessary to attribute this narrative to anything other than human folly?

Ben: It has to be some dark Other perpetrating these schemes.

Ben: It can't, I guess, just be about normal, real-world people plumbing the depths of human morality (or lack thereof) when the structure of society comes crashing down around them in the wake of catastrophe.

Ben: Frankly, I'm pretty fucking pissed.

Me: I guess the man in black shows up at some point to make the amoral flu virus more of a bad guy.

Ben: I was voicing my fears.

Ben: I was hoping they were unfounded.

Ben: OH WELL.

Ben: I was really hoping that the man in black would just be your usual antagonist.

Ben: He doesn't have to be the disloyal vizier sprinkling magic fucking poison sand into the king's goblet.

Ben: He can just be a bad dude.

Ben: Doesn't need to fly.

Ben: Doesn't need to consort with the dark forces of Evil to reclaim the earth in fiery apocalypse.

Me: Ben! He's a wizard!

Ben: Fuck that.

Ben: Wizard's don't have to use magic.

Ben: Holy shit I am so angry I am misusing apostrophes.

Ben: Look what you've done to me.

Ben: Look what Stephen King has done to me.

Ben: The depths to which I have sunk.

Me: LOL

Ben: Anyway

Ben: I am still enjoying the book so far

Ben: but my cautious optimism has been replaced with trepidation.

Me: What do you think is going to happen now?

Ben: I think now the world is going to end and then this ragtag group of misfits will discover that it was the midichlorians in their blood that allowed them to resist the disease, and then they will have lightsaber duels with the four horsemen of the apocalypse before confronting Satan himself, who is actually a giant spider.

Me: Forget about the spider bullshit.

Ben: Hahaha.

Me: That was the disappointing revelation at the end of IT.

Ben: Everything is drawn to the Dark Tower.

Me: Just the cosmic Turtle.

Me: Most of the book is the post-apocalypse story, the magic just influences the direction of the plot and character motivations after the world is over.

Ben: Okay.

Me: Because the man in black is like the personification of the evil of man or something.

Me: Doesn't King give a bunch of anecdotes about him being involved with evil shit but not actually directly causing it?

Ben: I'm not sure if they were allusions or if he was implying that he was actually physically present for every evil event ever.

Me: Well he kept coming back and causing mischief in that one kingdom didn't he?

Me: He's a shit stirrer like Will.

Ben: You can't name drop like that on KA IS A WHEEL.

Ben: You'll have to redact that.

Me: It will read "He's a shit stirrer like Will."

Me: Like how Richard became Richard.

Ben: Oh my god.

Me: Now that will read "Like how Richard became Richard."

Ben: That's what I was lamenting.

The Murder Dudes

Ben: I have read slightly more of THE STAND.

Ben: Think I am on about page 125.

Ben: They introduced the murder dudes, and men in suits explained that things cannot be explained, and a bitch got slapped.

Me: Who are the murder dudes?

Ben: Two guys that went on a mentally-deficient interstate killing spree.

Me: Oh yeah.

Me: Pokerizer 'em!

Me: Just read the next 50 pages right now, get it over with.

Ben: No, too tired.

Ben: We'll have to save that for its own blog post.

 

Me: Suck it up, bitch.

Me: Pretend you're comping.

Me: You do remember how to comp, don't you?

Ben: I am not joking when I say that I have almost no memory of what transpired that semester.

Ben: I have only the secondhand accounts of friends who saw me rarely at best.

Ben: Oh fuck, was that when Lost ended?

Me: What?

Ben: That was when Lost ended, right?

Ben: You know what I mean.

Ben: We watched it.

Ben: (I presume.)

Me: What are you talking about?

Ben: We watched the final season of Lost as it aired.

Ben: This is a thing we did.

Me: Oh yeah, you missed several episodes because you were ostensibly comping.

Ben: It is only slightly less nebulous than any other memory of that time.

Me: You had to leave in the middle of the season premiere because you locked your keys in your car with the engine running and your mom had to drive up to save you.

Ben: Hahahaha.

Ben: That's right.

We Need Help, the Poet Reckoned

Ben: So I read the first 75 pages of THE STAND the other day as laundry happened around me. 

 

Me: What has happened so far?

Ben: Susan just revealed her pregnancy to her father and then her mother came home.

Me: Sounds intense.

Ben: Or maybe I'm in the chapter after that, where King just narrates for ten pages how the disease is spreading from victim to victim.

Ben: I'm going to reference an earlier conversation here where I said something about how subchapters are bullshit and you told me that they keep people reading for longer because they keep telling themselves "just one more chapter" and I told you that was bullshit.

Ben: Because that's totally happened to me now that he's transformed the section delineations from subchapters to full-blown chapters.

Ben: Which are functionally no longer than the subchapters of previous books.

Ben: A new chapter doesn't even warrant its own page.

Ben: He's playing mind games with me, and I don't like it.

Ben: But anyway I read a lot more than I intended to because of these shenanigans.

Ben: As for the contents of the book itself, I'm actually finding it pretty fucking scary.

Ben: Possibly because I am some kind of amateur germophobe

Ben: and also constantly contemplate scenarios of the apocalypse.

Ben: It's like that feeling you get when, in a story, everything is going great and then one thing goes horribly wrong and you're like OH GOD WHY, WHY DOES THIS HAVE TO HAPPEN.

Ben: Because you are invested in the characters and want to see their efforts bear fruit, etc.

Me: So you like it?

Ben: Except that the thing that inspired the feeling of OH GOD WHY happened in the prologue, and the characters we are invested in are just "everyone in the world," and now it appears that for the next several hundred pages we are just going to watch as the consequences of this one chance event play out.

Ben: Yes, I'm definitely liking it.

Ben: I haven't really found any connection with the main characters themselves yet.

Ben: And, I mean, okay, I'm not trying to say that every female character must be an infallible paragon of virtue. but it would be nice if I could get even a single example of a female character in a Stephen King book who was not stereotypically irrational and desperately beholden to a male character.

Ben: Actually, I think that there was one tangential character in EYE OF THE DRAGON that fit that criteria.

Ben: I hereby absolve Stephen King of all blame.

Ben: And I obviously haven't read the abridged initial release of THE STAND, but I feel like King goes overboard with the description in a lot more cases.

Ben: Like, just interminable periods of nothing but description.

Ben: And he's not bad at describing things, in fact he's pretty good at it which I attribute to the fact that he's had so much practice.

Ben: But I feel almost like the unabridged edition must have just been a green light to add 500 pages of additional sensory data.

Me: But now you get to experience the story as he originally intended it to be told.

Ben: Maybe Stephen King is like the main characters of PSYCH or HOUSE or MONK and just walks into a room and stands there for three minutes, straining with all five senses to laboriously scrutinize every single detail.

Ben: It is like I just want to take him by the shoulders and shout STEPHEN KING THIS IS NOT HOW NORMAL PEOPLE ACT.

Ben: I REALIZE IT IS NECESSARY FOR THE AUTHOR OF A NARRATIVE TO ALLOW HIS READERS TO ESTABLISH A MENTAL MODEL OF THE SCENE BEING DESCRIBED BUT YOU MUST REALIZE THAT THIS IS JUST TOO MUCH, IT'S TOO MUCH.

Me: What scenes are you talking about?

Ben: There is no specific scene in mind.

Ben: It just happens sometimes.

Ben: The amount of scene being described just exceeds my capacity to care.

Me: So is the population at large aware of the plague yet?

Ben: No.

Me: OK.

Me: Who are the characters so far?

Ben: There's Stu, or something

Ben: who's one of the rednecks from the town where the refugees from the army base died.

Ben: Out of all the rest of his townsfriends, he is the only one who has not shown any symptoms.

Ben: Maybe he was a football star in high school or something but couldn't go to college to take care of his brother but I forget.

Ben: There is Susan, is one of king's typical hysterical dames and is pregnant with Thoreau's baby.

Ben: There is Thoreau, who is in college and a poet or whatever.

Ben: There is Johnny, who is some up-and-coming musician from LA staying at his mom's place in NYC.

Ben: It's been a few days, I can't have been bothered to commit these names to memory.

Me: Stephen King should hire you to write the dramatis personaes for his books.

Ben: How old is he, he can't have many books left in him.

Me: He was supposed to retire after he finished THE DARK TOWER, but then he didn't.

Ben: Haha.

Ben: When did he finish it?

Me: 2004 I think.

Ben: Wikipedia Stephen King and see how old he is.

Ben: I fear for spoilers.

Ben: Like the opening line of his Wikipedia article could be SNAPE KILLS ROLAND.

Ben: And due to the nature of THE DARK TOWER I could not conclude that this is false.

Me: Keep that in mind for future books.

Me: He's 63.

Ben: Okay so we still have like twenty years of this.

Ben: THE DARK TOWER I-VII was just the beginning.

Ben: Mark my words.

Me: You still have like twenty years of The Stand.

Ben: Dude I read 75 pages in one night.

Ben: The Stand is like 1100 pages.

Me: So you're almost 1/11 done.

Ben: That's just 14 nights of doing laundry.

Ben: I do laundry about once a month.

Ben: So one year, tops.

Ben: I fucking hate Jersey.

Ben: Shithole of a state.

Me: That's where Bruce Springsteen is from.

Me: It's what inspired to him to write all his songs about being a working man and living in squalor.

Ben: I vaguely remember one of his song lyrics going something like "it's a deathtrap, baby I'll never go back."

Ben: I presume he is referring to New Jersey.

Me: Hahaha.

Me: This town rips the bones from your back.

Me: Did you see his lyrics on the opening pages of The Stand?

Ben: WHAT'S THAT SPELL?

Ben: WHAT'S THAT SPELL?

Ben: WHAT'S THAT SPELL?

Me: No, not that one.

Ben: I'm sure I saw it.

Ben: Do we ever discover the significance of the title of THE STAND?

Ben: Or is it just one of those meaningless phrases.

Me: The Springsteen lyrics are the significance.

Ben: Oh.

Ben: Wait I'm pretty sure that several of the unrelated quotes in the front of the book mentioned stands, or standing.

Me: I dont rember what they all were.

Ben: Some conjugation of stand.

Me: The Stand has more quotes than every other Stephen King book combined.

Ben: Hahaha.

Ben: All of them entirely unrelated to the narrative.

Me: Outside the street's on fire

In a real death waltz

Between what's flesh and what's fantasy

And the poets down here

Don't write nothing at all

They just stand back and let it all be

And in the quick of the night

They reach for their moment

And try to make an honest stand

But they wind up wounded

Not even dead

Tonight in Jungleland

Me: Basically it refers to the stand of good against evil.

Ben: If you say so.

Ben: I guess the man in black shows up at some point to make the amoral flu virus more of a bad guy.

Me: lololol

Me: I was at Barnes and Noble the other day and he shows up on page 170.

Me: So hurry up and get there.

Ben: Did you read The Stand again, just for kicks?

Me: God no.

What's That Stand?

Ben: Thank god that I'm reading the uncut version of the stand, with 500+ pages that were omitted from the original release, along with a new beginning and ending

Me: Where does it say that?

Ben: Did you not read any of the three forewords that tell you this?

Me: What do you mean a new ending? He didn't change any of the story's events

Ben: "...includes more than 500 pages of material deleted, along with material that king added as he reworded the manuscript for its next generation of fans. New characters were introduced and familiar ones endowed with new depths. Both the beginning and ending were changed."

Ben: "WHAT'S THAT SPELL?

WHAT'S THAT SPELL?

WHAT'S THAT SPELL?"

- Country Joe and The Fish

Me: That doesn't sound like Stephen King's foreword. Are you reading the Wikipedia entry??

Ben: That's on page -1 of the book

Me: Well the beginning and ending aren't changed, he just added stuff to them. Did you finish reading all the opening epigraphs yet?

Ben: I'm into the lower-case roman numerals now

Me: Are you excited?

Ben: And trepidatious

Me: Try to finish the first 150 pages tonight

Ben: Is that the first act?

Me: No, it's much longer. That's how long it takes before the man in black shows up.

I Grok The Stand

Me: Did you read The Stand yet?

Ben: Not just once, but twice.

Ben: But I've heard that the third time through is necessary to really grok the narrative.

Me: What does "grok" mean?

Ben: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grok

Me: So it's not a synonym for "fuck" as I suspected.

Ben: It could be, for certain definitions of "fuck."

Me: Do you like Stephen King so much you fuck his books?

Ben: I have a confession.

Ben: When you told me not to fold, spindle, or mutilate your books, you did not specifically exclude penetration.

Me: Well at least Eye of Dagron is okay.

Ben: Yeah ew.

The Stand of Things to Come

Ben: Okay so should I start plowing through THE STAND or should I wait for DARTOWER 4.5 to come out first?

Ben: *DARTOWER IV.V

Me: Start on The Stand mos def.

Me: The new book is apparently set between 4 and 5.

Me: Plus I'm sure you'll still be reading The Stand long after it comes out.

Ben: Doesn't it come out in a year?

Me: Yes.

Ben: Fuck that shit.

Me: People say The Stand is his best book.

Ben: Sigh.

Me: The man in black is one of the main characters, there's a lot in book 4 you won't understand without it.

Ben: Haha.

Ben: So you are saying it is less tangentially related to DARTOWER than EYE OF THE DRAGON or 'SALEM'S LOT?

Me: Yes.

Me: 'SALEM'S LOT is more relevant to book 5 anyway.

Ben: Wait so you're saying that the priest doesn't show up until book fucking five?

Ben: *V

Me: Yes.

Ben: Then why does the official reading order recommend SL directly after II rather than after IV?

Me: Because Hearts in Atlantis is also relevant to book V and the only space left was between II and III.

The Waste Lands

Ben: So I finished THE WASTE LANDS while doing laundry last night.

Me: That must have been a lot of laundry.

Ben: I really don't have any criticism.

Ben: It was really solid and interesting.

Me: What did you think of the train?

Ben: It's pretty great.

Me: Hahaha.

Ben: Why, what should I think of the train?

Me: I was just wondering.

Ben: It is a fucking pink supersonic monorail driven by an insane suicidal AI who likes to tell riddles.

Ben: Oh man, it was terrible though.

Ben: In my head, I couldn't stop imagining that it was voiced by Owen Wilson.

Me: That is terrible.

Ben: I hope they cast him for the movie adaptation.

Ben: So I suppose I can confirm that THE WASTE LANDS is the best book yet in the Dark Tower decaoctology.

Ben: Lots of action and interesting developments, and Susannah didn't speak much.

Me: What are some interesting developments?

Ben: The house monster.

Ben: Everyone having a psychic link.

Ben: The billy-bumbler.

Ben: Everything about the city.

Ben: Time bein all crazy.

Ben: Blaine the pain.

Ben: And I guess Susannah is pregnant or whatever because why not.

Ben: Gonna make her pretty fucking hard to carry around, especially since they forgot her wheelchair on the train platform for no reason.

Ben: Probably better off, honestly.

Ben: Better abort that kid right now.

Ben: Who the fuck would want to be born into this shitty world?

Ben: Maybe it will be like Renesmee Cullen, where the baby will just be born fully grown so as to better facilitate the plot.

Ben: Time is already proven to be fucked, it would make at least as much sense as it did in TWILIGHT.

Me: Were you relieved that the Tick Tock Man survived?

Ben: I was more relieved that the man in black had returned.

Ben: And that it appeared that he was no longer completely in control of Roland's ka-tet.

Ben: There's finally some kind of conflict.

Ben: You have to strike a balance with this destiny bullshit.

Me: How did you know it was him?

Me: He changed his name again.

Ben: Yeah what a weirdo.

Ben: Just use your real name, dude, this guy doesn't know or care who you are.

Me: So have you finished The Stand yet?

Ben: I'm about 78% through.

Ben: Just 2,000 pages to go.

More

Ben: Oh I read some more of THE WASTE LANDS today but given that my internet is terrible right now and that you are having a depressive episode while trying to drink yourself into a vegetative state this probably isn't the best time.

Me: TELL ME

Ben: SO FAR I LIKE IT.

Me: what's going on

Ben: I read from where they left the old church people at River Crossing to where they just got to the bridge before the city.

Ben: I am enjoying it so far.

Ben: In the interim they had their palaver where they revealed they were all psychically linked and had fun with riddles and went to go visit some bees.

Ben: I can definitely say this is my favorite Stephen King book yet.

Me: what about the bimbly bumbler?

Ben: Whatever, something about ka-tet.

The Bimbly-Bumbler

Ben: Yu-Gi-Oh! GX is to television as Hall Of The Mountain King is to music.

Me: Remember when they played the real version of that song in The Social Network?

Ben: No.

Ben: I don't remember a single thing about that movie

Ben: because I can't remember things from the future.

Ben: I am not a character searching for THE DARK TOWER.

Me: Did you find it yet?

Ben: Still looking.

Ben: They just ate dinner.

Me: Did the raccoon thing show up yet?

Ben: The bimbly-bumbler?

Ben: Man this world has the dumbest names for things.

Ben: So thankful that God chose Adam to name the animals instead of Stephen King.

Ben: Instead of "sandwiches" they have "popkins."

Ben: But a hamburger is still a hamburger.

Ben: And for some reason nobody has ever bothered to correct Roland on the proper pronunciation of "aspirin."

Me: Tooter fish?

Ben: YES, ROLAND.

Ben: TOOTER FISH.

Ben: I AM SO SICK OF CORRECTING YOU, SURE.

Me: Those are very hard words to pronounce in his language.

Ben: But notice

Ben: that none of the characters from our universe have trouble pronouncing "billy-bumbler."

Ben: King is being cagey about whether or not the people from our universe magically understand Roland's language, or what.

Ben: Or what the hell the difference between High Speech and Low Speech is.

Me: Maybe it's like posh British and Cockney.

Ben: I suppose.

Ben: Have you downloaded the newest version of Firefox yet?

Ben: It is very exciting.

Ben: I am excited.

April is the Cruellest Month

Ben: I have resumed my interrupted quest for THE DARK TOWER.

Me: My first thought was, you lied in every word.

Ben: Still liking it for the most part.

Ben: I am now on SUBCHAPTER 2, CHAPTER 4, SUB-BOOK 2, BOOK 3, THE DARK TOWER.

Me: I don't understand what that means.

Ben: King is apparently quite fond of extensive numerical categorization.

Ben: Especially since chapters are independent of the sub-books that contain them.

Me: What percentage of the book have you surmounted?

Ben: 52.542372881355932203389830508475%

Me: Did they find the train yet?

Ben: No.

Ben: Jake was just born.

Me: How do you feel about that?

Ben: I think I'm seeing a theme here

Ben: where all of Stephen King's female characters are only good for histrionics, irrational behavior, and sex.

Me: He tries to make his stories true to life.

Ben: I'm trying my best to overlook the misogyny

Ben: but like, as far as I know, this is exactly all that the female character in STEPHEN KING'S IT turned out to be good for.

Ben: At least this character is not prepubescent.

Ben: Also

Ben: wtf is his deal with scary houses.

Me: He loves scary houses.

Me: There is one in 'Salem's Lot, The Waste Lands, Black House, It, Rose Red, and I'm sure other ones as well.

Ben: SHINING.

Me: That's a hotel.

Ben: These houses are mansions.

Ben: A hotel is basically a mansion.

Me: Good point.

Me: What happened to Susannah while they were pulling Jake out of the ground? I dont rember.

Ben: She was being raped by a demon.

Ben: Also

Ben: raping it.

Ben: Counter-rape.

Me: I mean

Me: was it a manta ray demon?

Ben: Yes.

Me: And then what happened to it?

Ben: With a hooked penis.

Me: Nice.

Ben: The gunslinger grabbed it and pushed it through the door and made the house monster eat it.

Ben: And the house monster's face turned purple while it choked.

Ben: Somehow.

Me: Hahaha.

Ben: I liked the house monster.

Ben: That was a cool scene.

Ben: Looking forward to watching it in 3D once THE DARTOWER PART 1 OF 3 comes out.

Me: Were you expecting Jake to come back to life?

Ben: No.

Ben: I thought he was going to stay and guard the rose or something.

Ben: I mean

Ben: this is probably too obvious to be true

Ben: but I wonder if the rose contains the gunslinger's universe.

Ben: Or maybe all universes.

Ben: Wtf is up with that rose.

Me: I could tell you, but then you wouldn't have to read the rest of the series!

Ben: The rose is Stephen King.

Me: The rose is me.

Me: ~ Brandon

Ben: Can't wait to read Brandon's first attempt at writing the longest fantasy epic of all time.

Me: I think we already have.

Ben: Maybe that's his rough outline.

Ben: The secret at the end of the Dark Tower is that the box is me.

Me: The Box is like his Childe Roland to the Dartower Came.

Ben: Should I read that poem or does it contain spoilers?

Ben: Did you include it in the second half of the Dark Tower decaoctology?

Me: The whole text is included in one of the later books.

Me: How do you write decimals in Roman numerals?

Ben: They have no such concept.

Me: Then how do I ask you if you're excited for Stephen King Presents THE DARK TOWER IV.V: THE WIND THROUGH THE KEYHOLE?

Ben: Is this a new book he is writing or is it a sub-book of book 4?

Me: Apparently it is set between books 4 and 5 and it is coming out next year.

Ben: Hahaha.

Ben: I guess we'll have to delay my readthrough then.

Me: If you keep going at your current pace I think you'll be all right.

Ben: We've already discussed this.

Me: You still have four or five books to go before you'd even get to book 5, one of which is The Stand, which I expect you to be reading for the next two years.

Ben: We can only hope.

Ben: I like the idea that Stephen King is so dead set on ensuring that THE DARK TOWER is the longest fantasy epic in history that anytime any other fantasy epic threatens its crown he will just write more midquels.

Ben: He will write whole books wherein he narrates every trippy dream that any of these characters have ever had.

Ben: Oh, I know.

Ben: He'll write whole books about minor characters from THE DARK TOWER living in 1980s New England, before they were sucked into Roland's world.

Ben: Or rather, every time any character has died in a Stephen King book, the man in black brought them back to life to live in this world.

Ben: THIS IS THEIR STORY.

Really Good

Me: The King's Speech won for Best Director.

Me: Didn't see that coming.

Me: What was your prediction, Ben?

Ben: Albert Baldwin.

Ben: For "Sounds of a Spaceship."

Me: Yeah, I was pretty disappointed that didn't get a Best Short Film nom.

Ben: Best Documentary.

Ben: "WILL I EVER SEE ANOTHER HUMAN BE-ING AGAIN HHUUUUHH."

Me: That's not important right now.

Ben: THE WASTE LANDS is really good.

Ben: Is that what's important right now?

Me: That's not what I was going to talk about but go for it.

Ben: I was trying to preempt you.

Ben: I dunno, it's just really good.

Me: Good book review.

Ben: Like, even though this book is clearly still setup for the rest of the story, I felt like the first two books were meta-setup, and this book has enough story meat to it that it is enjoyable in its own right.

Ben: I am finally invested enough in the characters and the characters themselves have matured enough that I'm starting to connect with them.

Ben: But Susan is still superfluous.

Ben: Susannah.

Ben: Wrong book.

Ben: Wait.

Ben: Damn Stephen King only knows like three names.

Me: Susan is Roland's girlfriend.

Ben: In King's Ur-book.

Me: What.

Ben: Wait.

Ben: Is there seriously a Susan character?

Me: Roland briefly reminisces about her in The Gunslinger.

Ben: You mean in 'Salem's Lot.

Me: No.

Me: $300 for 'pit' tickets to the Katy Perry concert, you in?

Ben: Will we get to meet Katy herself?

Me: Of course.

Me: We'll just have to be extra inventive.

Ben: I'm in.

Ben: Cross one off the bucket list.

Me: I just wish we could've met her before she changed her name.

Me: Ironically, Katy Brand is a much less lucrative brand than Katy Perry.

Ben: I agree, this is irony.